Sunday, September 03, 2006

Arrr... Swap books!

The story behind this here.

(Stop blabbing and show me the feature!)

We've done something piratical, and we're giving you the loot.

As you may know, there are sites out there that let users swap books. In fact, there are more than a dozen of them. LibraryThing members are using most of them.

We don't want to swap books on LibraryThing, but we thought it would be a great idea if LibraryThing integrated with a swap site, letting you know when books were available or wanted, and letting you move books back and forth.

Unfortunately, most swap sites want to be the ONLY one. They want LibraryThing to favor them, in exchange for this or that incentive, and leave their competitors marooned on a desert island.

We think LibraryThing members deserve more respect than that. After weeks of repetitious conversations, we were sick of the regular navy—it was time to turn pirate!

So, we just did it, without asking permission, without deals—and without revenue sharing. We've set up the infrastructure to work with all sites and send them all details (I've put them up on the Thingology blog.) If swap sites tell us what they have available, and make the links work, they get to join our crew.

Although all swap sites get to participate, we're putting them in two categories. Sites that let give as well as get—integrating with LibraryThing as we integrate with them—get top billing, with a logo and everything. The others get 9 point text. We hope they'll be more generous once we start promoting their rivals, and when users who use them as well as LibraryThing demand the same flexibility other swap sites provide.

So far, four sites have said they'll join our pirate vessel, and two have done the necessary work: BookMooch and WhatsOnMyBookshelf. (Update: In the comments, Read It Swap It says it's on their list too.) Welcome to these great sites. We applaud your sense of openness and eagerness to serve your customers!

To the rest we've sent a cannonball across your bow. Prepare to be
boarded--by your customers.

What's live now: Book pages show how many books are available and wanted (available/wanted) on participating swap sites.



Click on that and you'll come to the swap page, showing what's available site by site. Here's the page for A Wrinkle in Time (9 available, 1 wanted), Giver (8/4), Hannibal (29/0) or Freakonomics (1/49).**



In the future, we hope to add:
  • True synching. We'll publish a simple spec, and ask swap sites to help us make it a reality.
  • Wish list integration. We're going to have wish lists within ten days (dammit!)
  • Summary pages. See at a glance what books on your wish list are available at swap sites, and what books in your library are wanted by others
  • Catalog integration. Whether we put it on the catalog by default depends on how many users end up using the swap services.
*The story: The cognoscenti will recognize Nancy Pearl's Book Lust. Book Lust and the other books come with the Librarian Action Figure, of which Ms. Pearl was the model. The same company produces a Blackbeard action figure. So, I did an action-figure mash-up. (It's unclear what business expense category action figures fall under—office supplies?) Actually, this is the second Nancy Pearl figure I've bought. I lost the first figure, but I still have the stack of books. They're different books than the new ones. I have no idea why, except the first stack seemed to trivialize reading somewhat—Bulgarian Flax was one of the books.
**Lopsided numbers are common. Books seem to be either wanted (Freakonomics) or unwanted (Hannibal). Some swap sites have experimented with basing point values around Amazon prices (which would encourage people to put some real high-value books on, but is otherwise not useful). Others have gone with allowing users to set point values. This seems like it would work, but at the expense of a certain amount of bother. It might also possible to have the system adjust values automatically, either moving them until the market clears (every day Hannibal goes down) or basing them on historical ratio data. Again, people might end up feeling cheated. "What do you mean The Great Gatsby is worth 1/10 point and Madonna's Sex is worth 1,000? That's not FAIR!"

35 Comments:

Anonymous Anonymous said...

Hi,

I thought I'd add in my two pence (or cents!) worth and comment on one particualr aspect of this...

I run ReadItSwapIt - a UK based site - and I run it with a friend in our spare time as we have normal jobs too. So, unfortunately, we don't have a librarything link and we probably won't have one in the immediate future. But, contrary to what this might suggest, it's not as we don't care for our users. It's as we have a big pile of things to do to make our site better such as improved navigation and search throughout our 60,000 books, wish lists, deepening our links with Amazon etc etc. I could go on but I'll just make myself stressed! Librarything links are on the list of things todo, but not quite at the top yet.

Anyway, please feel free to have a look around our site and list your books with us and get swapping!

Andrew
readitswapit.co.uk

9/05/2006 11:28 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Blogger doesn't like this comment, but I'll try again.

May I suggest a banner on the swap information/link page:

Please keep in mind that the best way to support your favorite (living) authors is to buy their books new.

9/05/2006 4:12 PM  
Blogger Tim said...

I'll add a note to that effect. However, I'll also put my $.02 up.

I have more stake in that than most. My wife's an author. It would be nice if everyone not only bought her books new, but sent us a $10 bill on the side. And indeed, whenever someone gushes about how they love her books and took them all out from the library, it does sting a little.

But used books are of longstanding moral and legal legitimacy. Imagine if books could somehow *prevent* you from selling or giving to anyone else--like those DVD rentals that change color and become inoperable after a few days. I suspect people wouldn't pay as much for them. (I also suspect people would copy like crazy just to spite the jerks.) It follows that lending and resale are built into the price.

9/05/2006 4:27 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Are you going to add BookMooch and WhatsOnMyBookshelf to the list I can choose from when editing my profile? ('Also on').

(the blog comments page is taking a long time to load, btw.)

9/05/2006 4:46 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I've been quite happy to spend time cataloguing my own books with the help of LibraryThing, but all along I wondered what the point was of lumping all us users together into a community. Nosing through other people's libraries is fun, but not necessarily useful, so I've been waiting to see where we're all going with this project. The groups and the forums (I can't bring myself to type "fora") were steps toward what seems to be your goal, but now I think you've reached a tipping point.

Congratulations on this new development. LibraryThing is on the verge of being the first place I look when I think about a book.

9/05/2006 4:50 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Great feature. I have no idea what this would entail: but if you have access to the information, one lovely supplement to this would be the ability for users to find which books in their catalog are on other people's want lists.

9/05/2006 5:20 PM  
Blogger Abby said...

sunny - yes! I just added WhatsOnMyBookshelf; BookMooch was already there.

9/05/2006 5:40 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

What about BookCrossing integration? There's a lot of people I know locally who are into BC meetups for swapping books.

9/05/2006 5:47 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

This is great! I've already started switching my trades from another swap site to Book Mooch because they integrate with LT. Thanks!

9/05/2006 6:22 PM  
Blogger AndrewB said...

Bravo Tim and team, I can't wait for the site to come back online so I can have a nosy, the screenshot looks very nice. *two thumbs up*

9/05/2006 7:47 PM  
Blogger Tim said...

Re: Comments page being slow. So much in the world is my fault. But THAT is not my fault! It's bloggers, which is to say Google's.

PDeebs: Oh, name the site please! (I need ammunition.)

Nate: This has been discussed before, and never really went anywhere. Since you don't SWAP on bookcrossing, what sort... well, nevermind. Go over to the bookcrossing group and let's discuss there.

Brian: Dead-on.

9/05/2006 8:29 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Excellent idea!

One question. How do you undo the "swap this book" function. If you click it but decide you don't want to swap, is there a way to remove it without deleting the book from your collection and adding it back?

Maybe it's there but I missed it?

9/05/2006 9:49 PM  
Blogger AndrewB said...

Kathryn, LT isn't managing who is swapping what - so just clicking "Swap this book" when viewing a book or work on LT won't actually register you as wanting to swap.

To do that - you'd have to go to one of those websites on the list e.g. BookMooch and complete a process there to swap a book. :-)

You're safe to just click back into "Book Information" or "Social Information" which will take you back to the LT details page.

9/05/2006 10:15 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

A word about book-swapping versus book buying. Trust me. Book-swapping will *not* decrease book-buying. I learned that lesson well by joining BookCrossing a few years ago.

I thought I'd never give up getting books free from the library. However, I found it great fun to trace books and discuss books I've read with others who've read the same
book(s) as I. As I find out about good books from others through fora on various sites (now primarily BookCrossing and LibraryThing), my TBR list has gotten way out of control from books I bought so that I can put my BookCrossing stickers in them, mail them to others in bookrays/rings, or swap them (via Bookins).

One thing book-swappers do is give good press to books they like! Such marketing is of great value to authors.

9/05/2006 10:32 PM  
Blogger Tim said...

kathryn: I think BM has an explicit "undo" feature. I'm not sure about WOMB. Unfortuantely, it's in their court, not mine.

9/05/2006 10:49 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

What about BookCrossing integration? There's a lot of people I know locally who are into BC meetups for swapping books.

Oh, god, please, no! There are enough people out there who already confuse BookCrossing with a swap site (which it is NOT) and inundate its members with unwanted begging PMs. Let's not encourage that.

This should be limited to sites that are set up for the purpose of swapping books.

9/05/2006 10:52 PM  
Blogger Blue Tyson said...

If you list these, can you have some sort of flag next to them as to which might be US only, international, etc., so we don't waste our time looking at the non-useful ones?

9/05/2006 11:17 PM  
Blogger Tim said...

Squeaky: No, I think you're mostly right. I don't like to press that argument, because I think it's often overused. It's not true, for example, that if everyone swapped MP3 files for free online it would boost concert sales enough to make up.

Lilithcat: No. I don't think there should be integration with BC *AS* a swap site.

Blue: I think the location issues are complex enough that they should be handled on the swap site's pages. Some let you set what you'll accept--Canada okay, but not England. And I don't want to get into those weeds.

T

9/05/2006 11:25 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I'm the anonymouse who suggested "please keep in mind... support your favorite authors.... buy"

In response to Tim's response:

I didn't advocate shutting down used book sales, please note. It just seems a good idea to remind people that authors subsist on royalties, which only come from new book sales. Of course everybody is free to buy according to their own needs and wishes.

9/06/2006 1:21 AM  
Blogger Tim said...

Great. We agree. I gather, however, that some European countries have library lending royalties. As much as I don't want to impose fees on libraries, that's not a bad idea...

9/06/2006 1:26 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Andrew, thanks for clarifying. I sort of panicked for a moment. :)

9/06/2006 2:32 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Tim - I have been using TitleTrader for over a year now. Never had a real problem with them but also didn't hesitate to switch to BookMooch because of the integration. Thanks for all your hard work.

9/06/2006 6:20 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Hmmm - is it just me or has this changed the way moving between pages works? I have been frantically adding books and covers, have got into something of a rythmn....and now find that having 'uploaded' my new cover image I am now sent to the social data page for the book - not back to my copy for data editing. Then even worse - because of potential speed implications - when I have finished editing and use the 'submit' option I am now sent back to my library listings, not the add books page...even though that is, of course where I started from several clicks ago....Help !

9/06/2006 5:54 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

There's also a thread about this from the Recommend Site Improvements group.

9/06/2006 6:16 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I'm an author, so I think I'm qualified to comment on the issue of whether book swapping and/or the availability of cheap used copies is bad for authors. In my opinion, it isn't. Sure, it would be nice if everybody who might like to read a book bought a new copy -- but that could never happen. There are more people who can't afford to buy new hardcover books than people who can (and the majority of authors are among them). There also many people who can afford only a few, and nowadays when swapping and reselling are so easy, these people buy books they otherwise wouldn't risk money on. That's where the used books come from! Bear in mind that unless a book sells well, it will be scarce and there won't be any cheap or free used copies available.

Tim, it IS true that wide dissemination of a book provides publicity that increases the book's sales. The more free review copies a publisher gives away, the better the book will sell, even if those copies end up at a swap site or on eBay. Publicity is by far the largest factor in a book's commercial success; books that few people have heard about go out of print very quickly, no matter how well they are liked by readers. It is not like swapping MP3 files, which can be duplicated endlessly. To be available for swapping copies must have been printed, and there won't be multiple printings unless more people take a chance on the book than those who want to keep it permanently.

In fact, these days books that won't sell well to libraries are not published in hardcover at all. Except for those by Big Name authors and the few selected for major expensive publicity campaigns, more hardcover books are expected to be sold to libraries than to the public. In the case of fiction the sale of paperback rights is what brings in the most money --but those rights will never be bought unless people read the book and spread the word about it. So anything that increases a a book's circulation is all to the good.

9/07/2006 12:04 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

back again, still anonymous, to say this: it was not my intention to open up the perennial debate about the impact of used book sales on new books sales. SylviaE has an opinion, Tim has an opinion, I've got an opinion -- all irrelevant to my suggestion.

The average reader simply doesn't know that royalties are paid once, with a first sale. The average author doesn't make much money. It seems simply reasonable to make readers aware of the facts.

I see it simply as a matter of disclosure. In a similar way, if somebody calls on the phone and asks for a donation to the fire fighter's annual fund drive my first questions are: do you work for a firm hired to raise funds? And if so, how much of my dollar actually goes to the fire fighters? I like to know where my money is going before I decide to spend it.

9/07/2006 10:14 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

"Wish list integration. We're going to have wish lists within ten days (dammit!)"

It's day 11!

(Can you tell I'm anxious?)

9/14/2006 1:46 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.

4/19/2008 1:56 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.

4/19/2008 1:58 PM  
Blogger lindsey kathlene said...

i don't use librarything or any of these services, but i love this post, and it makes me want to use librarything. hurrah for you.

4/28/2008 3:23 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

For those authors that don't like the idea of book swapping, because it prevents people from purchasing their book full price :

Well, not all of us can afford to buy a new book every time it comes out. I personally will buy brand new books some times, but I don't always have the money to do so, so that is why book swapping comes into play. I can understand that it is your job to write, and you expect the money that is made from those books, but when someone no longer wants their book, wouldn't you rather them give it or sell it to someone that does instead of throwing it away? I know that if I created something, I wouldn't want it to just go to complete waste.

5/14/2008 5:02 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Check out Fast Book Swap at www.FastBookSwap.com and swap your college textbooks on that site. Fast Book Swap is the best college book swap site I have seen, and you can even get a chance for a $500 book scholarship twice a year! College book Swap!

8/22/2008 10:08 AM  
Blogger Unknown said...

Thanks for the tip! I found the college textbook I needed. I love it, I am going to buy, sell, and swap all my college textbooks there. Fast Book Swap really did save me money. Thanks.

9/03/2008 10:32 AM  
Blogger celica95 said...

I'm not sure the integration with Book Mooch is working properly in all cases. I just looked up "Breaking Dawn" by Stephanie Meyer and the swap page said 0 available, but when I went directly to BookMooch.com I see there is 1 available. Do you know why that could be?

1/19/2009 9:03 PM  
Anonymous Mika said...

I saw this on Twitter yesterday?...Is it true? Finally!
"@paperbackswap Submitted our book data feed to LibraryThing.com & OpenLibrary.org. So that we may become a source for swapping books. -Ask them to add us!"

8/21/2009 9:42 PM  

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