Monday, November 14, 2005

More on author pages / some dreaming

Here are some responses to the responses to the last post, with some dreaming at the end.

1. Fixes. I fixed the author numbering problem, the author link problem, the apostrophe problem, and some others. There can still be a difference between copy numbers because the author page doesn't count duplicates.

2. New feature. I added an author rating feature, based on book ratings.

3. Secondary authors. Yes, it's too bad that secondary authors are not in the current system. It's a little wiggly, starting with the programming standpoint. There's also some issues between "second authors" and "included authors." I'm going to let this run for a while before thinking about it. More generally, I want LibraryThing to handle "contents" in a rich way—to allow it to see the stories within the story collections. Authors are part of that, but not the largest part.

4. Non-suggested authors. Yes, I'm going to add something for the Ratzinger/Benedict or Clement/Twain problem. I think I'm going to restrict it to paid users, in case someone decides to run through the system combining popes with humorists. I'd also like the UI to use an auto-complete, which will take a little work.

5. Author cloud. This was the necessary first step to a fixed author cloud. The author cloud was shut down for a reason—lots of complaints. Chief among these was that the cloud included "the same author twice." Opening up author names in this way make it possible to fix that.

6. Book-combination. Clearly this is a trial-run for other user-driven features. There is a method to my madness!

In case you read this far, I will tip my hand a little—and dream a little. Some day soon I'll post more on this topic, but here's some initial thoughts.

In general, the more open the system the better it will satisfy users. At the same time openness can create real value. That irritated person who clicks a button to make their German and English Harry Potters show up under the same author is forging a piece of information that Amazon doesn't know. (Actually, they may know THAT one, but you see my point.)

The potential is huge: LibraryThing could be for library catalogs what Wikipedia is for encyclopedias. That's a little imprecise. By and large, LibraryThing users don't enter their own data, but take it from Amazon and libraries. But the connections between the data—author aliases, book aliases, contents, subjects/tags, etc.—can all be user-driven. Even now, recommendations, related tags and so forth are user driven—they're driven by user statistics.

I believe that over time LibraryThing users will generate significant cataloging value. Some of the value will be user-generated. Some of it will be statistical. Most of it will be probabilistic rather than binary. And in the end, LibraryThing will never be the best catalog in the world. But I think it can produce data and will make even THAT catalog better.

All that from the "competitive bastard child of bibliomaniacs and pro wrestlers"!

32 Comments:

Anonymous Anonymous said...

Here's an unrelated feature idea:
Gather statistics on the most useful libraries (in terms of successful queries) for each user. I.e. track each "add book" click to the library it was queried from.

Then, every use can have the the five most accessible library links (i.e. what today is Amazon.com, LoC, Chicago, Yale, BU, more) be *customized* to the libraries *he* found most useful. For instance, when cataloging a large old classics collection, one gets good results from Oxford, and from German libraries -- far more than from Amazon.com and BU.

What do you think?

11/14/2005 9:49 AM  
Blogger N. Trandem said...

You mean I can't combine Popes with humourists? Awwww... you're no fun! Seriously though, this sounds really great, I can't wait for these new features!

11/14/2005 9:56 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

This site gets better day by day (even when you thought it couldn't get any better) ... Even my book group friends think I need to get a life, but this is just so compelling!

11/14/2005 10:11 AM  
Blogger Dave said...

Hooray for the mini-roadmap.

I'm really looking forward to being able to add the short stories (with authors?) to my anthologies.

Watch out for robots clisking on those links. Maybe make the whole thing logged users only.

11/14/2005 10:40 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Tim

Links from some author's in catalog, still don't take me to the author page in a number of cases.

11/14/2005 11:13 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Thanks for making major headway into fixing my favourite bugs!

I greatly prefer action to email replies! (-;

11/14/2005 11:53 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Right now I get a "Redirection limit for this URL exceeded" error message when I try to click some, but not all, authors in my library.

And the problem with accents and other diacritical marks seems to be there still. Compare "Bronte" and "Brontë" for example. I sent a mail about this kind of problem regarding the search function earlier, but weirdly enough the problem seems to be even more general than that, since there's also lots of non-english words that DON'T include accents that won't turn up when searched for.

11/14/2005 2:05 PM  
Blogger Malte said...

Also, the system seems to think that one of my three books by Emile Zola is by "Emilé Zola", even though I've spelled all three identically.

I'm confused.

11/14/2005 2:23 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I'm not sure how this author combination is supposed to work.

I have searched for China Miéville. It has no suggestions for "combine with..."

However there are plenty of books in LT with an author China Mieville.

Furthermore there are books catalogued for both names with a matching ISBN.

Obviously these should be "combined".

BTW - great news on the short story collection / anthology hitting you public mini-roadmap

11/14/2005 3:19 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

No kidding - I would LOVE to see contents presented. Much more than only authors.

If you open a 'voluntary donations' feature, I assure you, some of us would contribute from the overflow of our hearts. :) Seriously, I didn't pay enough for this.

Your dreaming has a nice ring of reality to it... thanks for letting us in on it, and making users so central a part of what happens on LibraryThing.

11/14/2005 11:26 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Weird search thing: I have Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance in my library, but searching for "zen" shows no results in my library or *all* libraries. Searching for "motorcycle" finds the book though? Is this the right place for this kind of message?

11/15/2005 1:15 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

How will two different authors with the same name be separated? (ie. Robin Cook). Perhaps by appending their date of birth?

11/15/2005 3:44 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Try using the Library of Congress authority files at http://authorities.loc.gov/. They're free. They don't have as many authority records as...OCLC...but then...you'd have to pay to access OCLC's authority files.

For folks living in NC, I'd look up my titles in WorldCat via NC LIVE if I were you. That way you can look up your book title and see what subject headings (i.e., descriptors) are used as well...

signed...a cataloger by profession

11/15/2005 7:52 AM  
Blogger AbbotOfUnreason said...

anonymous (zen),
I think he said something a while back about his database engine only really indexing words more than three characters.

LibraryThing,

So cool to see into the future like this. Is there any chance of a api type thing like with google maps?

11/15/2005 8:48 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Is there a way to sort tags? I prefer mine to list alphabetically, but when I add a tag in bulk, the newest tag is listed last. There is no way that I see to sort them except to edit book-by-book. - ohjanet

11/15/2005 10:26 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I think for separating two authors with the same name we could make it possible to add a "disambiguation token" which could be free form, allowing say country, genre, or birthday - which may not always be known.

But what about the long-lived author "Anonymous" who has been prolific for centuries in many languages and many genres? (-;

11/15/2005 10:35 AM  
Blogger Unknown said...

Adding too many “bells and whistles” to fast may create a cacophonous calliope.

Some catalogers could get alienated by “rich” features being added daily, and therefore, lose their basic interest in getting their libraries on the LC shelves.

The inclusion of a link that goes to text only might alleviate that scenario.

At any rate, drive on!

11/15/2005 1:41 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

How do you get author's names to show up int he "suggest" area? I have tried listing the alternate versions of the name under "Other authors" I am trying to combine Beetons; Beeton, Mrs. Beeton, Isabella Beeton, all of the "Household book of Management." A cursory search confomred my suspicion that more thn 2 of us had a copy.

11/15/2005 4:29 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I just saw an article that says Amazon is experimenting with tagging now.

http://news.com.com/2061-10802_3-5953622.html?part=rss&tag=5953622&subj=news

http://slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=05/11/15/229226&from=rss

11/15/2005 8:52 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Yes, I noticed that (the Amazon tagging) yesterday. Jumping on the bandwagon... useful, there, but hardly as appealing as tagging things here. Or, at least that's how I felt about it. It's less meaningful when the books in question don't belong to you and the 'community' is so diffuse. There's no central, binding passion for one's books and value on cataloguing them.

Perhaps I'm merely being prejudiced. :) Huge entities are useful (I have Amazon to thank for the info. on many of my books!), but I can't seem to help a certain bias against them, in favor of smaller things....

11/16/2005 3:15 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

My blog widget has stopped working. :( I had it in my profile here, but now it is blank. When I go to 'edit my profile' the javascript I've cut and pasted in vanishes, every time. (Well, not quite 'vanishes'. If I put in any other text around it e.g. HTML, the space where the javascript was pasted in remains, and gets bigger if I repaste.) Clearing the whole thing out and retyping doesn't solve it either. I was getting quite fond of it, too! Wah!

11/17/2005 8:31 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I have the same problem that bopeepship has. It's been going on for a couple of weeks. What's up?

11/17/2005 9:33 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Ooops, sorry, bopeepsheep, my fingers must have slipped!

11/17/2005 9:33 AM  
Blogger Tim said...

Hey, send me your blogs. I'm a bit confused. Both of you have a LiveJournal—LibraryThing widgets NEVER worked on LiveJournal. (They prohibit JavaScript.) Meanwhile, I'm seeing them work elsewhere. Sometimes, if there's an error, it takes 20 minutes to get a new widget—there's a cache system. Do you guys have a non-LJ blog that it was working on?

11/17/2005 9:41 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I've had exactly the same problem, given up repasting it in the Profile. I noticed there are still a few 'Random selections' showing in profiles, but none show covers anymore (that I can discover anyway)

11/17/2005 9:57 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

When clicking on the link to an author page, sometimes I'm getting the error (in a Firefox dialog box) "Redirection limit exceeded. May be caused by blocked cookies." (or something close to that -- can't copy from the dialog box).

11/17/2005 11:14 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

No, the problem's not on LJ; I didn't even try putting it there since I saw the comments from others that it doesn't work.

I mean that it doesn't work on my profile on LibraryThing! The odd part is that I did have it on my profile. Then one day it disappeared and I can't get it back. Same symptoms bopeepsheep describes.

11/17/2005 1:30 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

The blog widgets haven't worked in LibraryThing profiles for about 2 or 3 weeks now. I had a widget in my profile, but it disappeared when I edited it, and I can't insert it again

I didn't say anything before because I just assumed that Tim had turned off Javascript in profiles....

11/17/2005 3:05 PM  
Blogger . said...

Yes, as they say above, I was talking about LT profiles, not LJ. I already knew LJ won't work, since you can't use Javascript there. It seems to be that unedited profiles still work, but any edit stops it working and does this odd deleting thing. Oh well.

I haven't tried using it with Blogger yet, although I will go and prod it and see if it works...

11/17/2005 3:22 PM  
Blogger Wm. said...

Extra hard returns?

When I load up an Author Page (Safari 2.0.2(416.12) on Mac OS X 10.4.3), there are extra hard returns between each users's book count and the comma like this:
-----start of Author Page----------
Author: Kevin Henkes
Users with books by Kevin Henkes
Wombat (9)
, kidlitlist (7)
, lisamichele (3)
, tina81450 (2)
, wenestvedt (2)
-----end of Author Page----------

Is that my browser, or is the generated page gots a bug?

Anyway, thanks again Tim for all your hard work.

On an antirely different topic, I was thinking that LT would be a geat tool for people to help identify books that *gasp* they can get rid of -- specifically, for donation this holiday season to shelters, overseas soldiers/sailors/airmen, or local library booksales. Send a favorite title to someone who could use something wonderful during a tough time of the year.

11/18/2005 9:32 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Taleswapper, I'm dreaming of an API someday, too!

Tim, I found the same "bug" in my LT profile's "about my library" section, where it disappears the "random books from my library" widget. In that section, it also disappears the "<small>" tag that I had surrounding some text, and which used to work. The href tag in there seems to be still okay, though.

11/18/2005 3:31 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Here's a few more feature requests:
1. On the Add a Book page, give me the option of viewing and clicking-to-select my currently used tags.
2. On the Tags page, let me Replace a tag (not just add and then remove).
3. Give me the option to view more than 20 books at a time in Graphical Shelf
4. When Adding Books, allow me to multi-select. This would make it SOOOO much easier to enter a series of books by the same author, or several books on the same topic. For example, I pretty much own the entire Eugene Peterson collection on pastoral theology. All tagged similarly too. It would have been nice to multiselect his books, rather than a bunch of click-this-book, then hit the back button, click-another-book.
5. Amazon Wishlist isn't very helpful to me as I don't want to catalog things I haven't yet purchased. but if I could import the books I *have* purchaed through my Amazon History, that would be super.


Above all, though, thanks for such a killer system. I LOVE this app and am recommending it highly to my friends.

11/20/2005 10:57 AM  

Post a Comment

<< Home